www.paulbudnitz.com
eBoy Interview
December 2007
INTRODUCTION
With offices located in the working class Wedding section of Berlin, German artists eBoy are generally credited with starting the pixel art movement.
Founded by Steffen Sauertieg, Svend Smital, and Kai Vermehr in 1997 with the launch of eBoy.com, eBoy continues to develop new possibilities through exclusively creating artworks for the emerging digital world. eBoy's early decision to directly work on and for the screen led to the use of pixels, and their extremely well-known pixel cityscapes. eBoy's unique modular-based and collaborative work system helped evolve their trademark style of complex, object-rich digital artwork.
eBoy’s clients include Adidas, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Paul Smith, DKNY, Kidrobot, MTV, The New York Times, Wired Magazine and many many more. Most recently eBoy designed the popular Peecol toys with art toy maker Kidrobot.
This is a really fantastic interview, please enjoy!
-- Paul Budnitz
THE INTERVIEW
Paul: When I first visited your studio in Berlin a few years ago, you guys told me that you grew up in different environments, in East and West Germany. What was it like growing up for each of you, and when did you first identify yourselves as artists?
Svend: I grew up in the East part of Berlin, in East Germany. I can't remember it being very special being a child there, except that I didn't get any Matchbox cars.
SVEND & STEFFEN, East Berlin, Circa 1987
Things started to get frustrating as I got more and more aware of the many restrictions within this country. For example, it was possible to listen to our favorite bands over the radio but impossible to go to their concerts just a few hundred meters away. You couldn't buy the books or records you wanted to see or go to the movies you wanted to see. I was excluded from seeing the other half of the city I was living in... Besides that, we had some really good parties with too many Gin & Tonics occasionally.
Maybe I started getting interested in art and design when I scribbled figures and patterns on the sleeves of my exercise books during boring school lessons. Later, when I saw early expressionist and surrealistic movies, I got interested in painting and architecture from the same time. But it's hard to mark a point from where I saw myself as an artist.
Kai early work, 1989
This growing interest in any form of art, and the wish to do something in this direction myself, developed in parallel.
Steffen: Growing up in the East part of Berlin was very normal. Things changed dramatically when I became a teenager. Since we could get both East and West TV and radio stations it was very easy to see what was really going on. I soon realized that I lived on the wrong side of the wall. All the cool stuff came from the "West"!
 East Berlin, circa 1987
The radio show “John Peels Music” on BFBS (a radio station for British soldiers), aired once a week, was my biggest influence. And I was really impressed by album covers, stuff like the single "Blue Monday" from New Order was mind-blowing!
After the wall came down I got addicted to buying magazines, also I bought music CDs because of their covers (sometimes a big mistake!), but I guess all this moved my focus into art and design.
Kai: I was born in Caracas, Venezuela but grew up in Frankfurt, Germany and later, when I was 9 years old, my family moved to Guatemala.
KAI, Essen Studentenwohnheim, circa 1987
I'm not sure how to describe my time there...the native culture in Guatemala (and Mexico) is very strong. I loved this and it still inspires me today. On the other side, almost none of my friends (with the exception of my mother) really cared about this.
So, part of me was feeling alien while the other part lived a normal life.
Steffen, early postcard artwork, circa 1994
At some point I began exploring photography and music, and later regularly went to underground movies that were appearing in some countries' cultural embassies. At some point I just wanted to leave and join all those places and people I had seen in the movies... Maybe during this time I started to know I would stay on that track, as I sensed I was fascinated by all kinds of expression and reflection.
Paul: As an American, meeting people who grew up on the Eastern side of the wall is very interesting. When I was a kid, the only thing we ever saw about East Germany was in movies, and pictures of bleak, grey streets and the secret police, all cold war stuff like in a John Le Carré novel. In our minds, all art from the East had to be socialist propaganda.
I don't mean to exaggerate this, but there was a lot of misinformation fed to Americans and our educational system has always been somewhat questionable in regards to world history.
And what really strikes me about your work is that it's so colorful, playful, and cheerful. Even if there's a giant monster eating Tokyo at the same time.
Steffen: Actually, in my dreams East Berlin is still exactly how you describe it - very very grey with some colorful propaganda stuff... We had only a few different kind of cars, the buildings were very old and run down and there was nearly no advertising at all ... also propaganda slogans were very present.
Svend: I remember East Germany as a very narrow minded society. I had colored hair and strange haircuts at this time and that made people stare at me like an animal in the zoo. Of course, this was somehow intentional, but there was more aggression than interest. Frequently policemen stopped me to check my ID just because they didn't like my look.
The cities were much more grey than in the West and in a very bad state. But I only realized how much color was missing when I went to the West for the first time. I knew Western cities from movies and television but maybe this was taken somehow as fiction. Being there in reality was just another story.
Propaganda was always present, that's right, but you could ignore it. And there was also an active music and art scene besides the propaganda production.
Paul: Do you fee like your backgrounds really influenced your work?
Steffen: Maybe a bit, but I don't really know...
Svend: I wouldn't say that my background (growing up in the East) influences my work. It's just too long ago. Soon I will have lived in the West as long as in the East, and newer, fresher experiences are much more dominant.
Paul: How did you get into Pixel art?
Kai: We started to work with pixels because we wanted to create and publish our work on the screen only. We were really excited about the new possibilities of digital reproduction -- it was so cool to work on the screen and know that anyone who would look at our artwork would have exactly the same view of it. And it could be copied and spread through diskettes without any loss or huge costs!
Superbroncobattle
FooBar
Food picture, from a series developed for a Paul Smith event in Milano
This was funky stuff at a time when the vast majority of the people we knew printed their work to get things out to the public, and felt that digital-only art was not real because it could not be touched.
So when we decided to work digitally the pixels came naturally to us - the decision was driven by our technical approach. It soon turned out that it was big fun to play with pixels and that it was ideal for our modular work style.
This all was before 1997 which is our official eBoy birthdate... (I guess we're older than Google!).
Paul: I'm a big fan of collaboration. I honestly believe that a lot of Kidrobot’s success comes from the fact that I very forcefully require that artists both inside and outside the company not attach their egos to the work. The whole idea is that it is the work that tells us what needs to be done, and it is the artist that serves the art, not the other way around.
This is one reason that my name is very rarely on the clothing or toys that I create. I do everything I can to get other people involved, and of course I'm biased, but I believe that working as a group is not 1 + 1 = 2, but that 1 + 1 = 4. It is exponentially more powerful.
Your work is really mind-blowing, especially the cityscapes. One of the things that really interested me in working with you was that when we met that first time in Berlin, I couldn't tell who did what. That was surprising to me, it's very unique to see a group of artists working together and not know who is in charge.
Kai: The collaboration process came to us very naturally.
I think the first real work we shared was when we built our first City (pixel landscape) picture. Each of us got pieces of real estate and started to make buildings. One of us collected all the parts and composed them to the final city. It was exciting when a new building arrived from the others.
Maybe we all noticed, in that moment, that for us it was fun and worthwhile to cooperate. And it is cooler to have somebody to share your excitement with.
Also we liked that the multiple personal layers added to something much richer. It was like a real city where things add up and change all the time.
So the basic concept has not changed. We do share all the work and proactively try to engage each other. It's good to hand your work over to somebody else, and the best of it is that it keeps you from getting bored.
Paul: What was the first City picture that you built together? What inspired you to do that?
eBoy: A Japanese publisher wanted to feature our work in a book about websites. And we really wanted to do something together. So we came up with this idea of starting a city -- we divided the real estate and started to make stuff for it.
eBoy's first city image, created for the book Image Source 100 in 1997
Paul: I had this discussion the other night with a friend of mine who is a well-known writer, and we were trying to figure out where creativity comes from, I mean, inside ourselves.
I don't just mean sources of inspiration - I mean what is it that makes some people, like you guys, totally original and inventive, over and over and on and on, with really no limits to the invention? And other people just seem to freeze up, either sometimes or always?
Another way to ask this is, how do you feel when you are in the middle of a creative flow?
Kai: On a global scale I think nature is inherently creative - and we are part of nature's game. To put it another way: everybody is creative by nature - it would mean death if it wasn't like this.
Paul: I think I know what you mean about nature being creative. My own experience is that creativity, the energy that exists that creates new things, is the same energy that makes the trees grow, it is life itself. I don’t mean to sound new-agey, but it’s just my experience.
Kai: On a personal level I guess increased creativity is a combination of variegated strengths and weaknesses. Strengths are obvious - but weaknesses are equally powerful as they force you to find solutions to compensate for them. If people have the ability to make both (their personal strengths and weaknesses) work for them, then they probably are especially creative.
And for some reason our individual profiles do work well together and form something new at eBoy. It's the same for some music bands - there are millions of good musicians, but to form a good band you need the right chemistry between the members. And in a way it's just plain luck if all these things come together at the right time.
One of many eBoy robots
Paul: Many people think that creativity has something to do with thinking differently, that they can "think creatively", buy my experience is that creativity has nothing to do with thinking.
What is your opinion about this?
Kai: I believe that "thinking" is just partly conscious. There are huge amounts of information processed on a subconscious level. I guess the part we are aware of is actually a tiny fraction. We would not function if it were otherwise. Also, I do think that intelligence and creativity are very complex combinations of myriad personal properties. A person that is smart or creative in one way can be completely foolish and uninspired in another situation. I think we are wonderful complex parts of nature.
So I do agree that we can't control creativity with our mind. On the other side we can consciously pursue ways to get inspired - to play - to create - and to get things done.
Paul: Yes, you know I have begun to pay attention to myself when I am in the middle of a creative flow. I have noticed that almost subconsciously, I have tended to nurture habits that help support the act of creation. For me, this is almost a kind of technology, a system I can use to invoke a creative moment when it’s needed. I can’t guarantee an outcome, but something interesting almost always comes up.
What do the three of you find as useful in this way?
eBoy inspirations.
Eboy: One of the very basic things is to share almost everything we find or do. Our present tools are del.icio.us, ffffound!, flickr, Google Docs, Gmail, Google Reader, Google Image Search, Google Calendar, iChat (video and text), Todoist, Basecamp, Google Sketchup, Modo and Tumblr.
Also, we are constantly curious about new ways to improve our work flow. The web has been evolving to enable collaboration in the past years. It is coming up with new awe-inspiring possibilities every day. We're all very lucky...
Paul: OK, so let's talk a little about Peecol, since we have just been working on this together, and the toys are popular, so I know people are interested in them.
Peecol Toys, created with Kidrobot 2007
We met in Germany for the first time a year and a half ago and now here are these magnificent Peecol toys piled and taken apart next to my keyboard, and they are just about my favorite things in the world right now.
I know what inspired me to do this project with you -- it was wanting to get involved in your artwork, and also this personal love I have for Playmobile and similar European toys like Brio.
First Versions of Peecol Toy Characters, Pixel Edtions
eBoy: We love the European modular toy-tradition - LEGO, Playmobil, Brio - and we love American/Asian character based toys (BigJim, Barbie, Godzilla, Gundam, Transformers, etc.). We wanted to do something that would be at home in both worlds.
Peecol, resin prototype 2006-2007
Peecol, resin prototype pieces as they arrive from Kidrobot's factory, 2007
Also, we noticed that many collector art toys are more sculptures than toys. I remember that I once bought a collector toy in a wonderful package and when I unpacked it, everything came off and the plastic was ugly. The toy was made for adults that would never play with it - probably even don't unpack it. We can understand that this is cool for many people, but for us it was something we didn't want to do.
We wanted a sturdy, playable and beautiful toy. Stuff like those old metal mighty Tonka Trucks. Besides attracting adults, it should survive serious kid's play. Also, we love when toys show the marks and wear of usage. A new toy is wonderful, but a heavily used one can be really really cool.
Paul: Peecol has a very specific aesthetic. During the project the three of you and I would occasionally have disagreements because you wanted colors to be a certain way, and I, as usual, wanted bright colors or thicker lines. Or you wanted the joints of the toys to be clearly visible, and I had this habit of seeking smoother curves. I even wanted the heads to come off (not just the waists), and you convinced me not to.
I think this has happened with many people and Peecol - when the pictures of the toys first came out, some people on our message boards thought they were awkward and even ugly, and now I've noticed that many of those same people have fallen in love with them. It's as if through repetition we have all been trained to look differently. We say, "Oh! I see what eBoy has going on here! These are beautiful, there is intention here!" So, thankfully, the toys are super-popular and I don’t have to go bankrupt.
What a relief.
:)
eBoy: I don't know...we are really in love with this project and the people we have been working with. Everybody being so engaged is just the best that could have happened!
Paul: Thank you.
eBoy: These kinds of lines and forms came natural to us when we decided that we didn't need to make a pixelated toy. We wanted nice to touch, soft, but elaborated forms. We looked at car bodies and all kinds of industrial design stuff - and we looked at simple but smart forms in nature. So we switched to Adobe Illustrator for the 2D design process - and the results were very different to what we used to do with pixels -which was pretty exciting.
As for the joints, we like them bold, so they should show off - they are a simple technological feature and we are happy if people become aware of them. Also, it was really important that the waist joint was beautiful and at the same time 100% functional - and we wanted it to "click" so there would be some feedback when sticking parts together.
Peecol "Click" Socket Stucture, with eBoy's Notes for Kidrobot
Paul: I love that “click.” That was a brilliant thing for you to insist on. Do you know, we went through a half dozen molds to get that right.
eBoy: The concept was to make the toy parts modular and generic enough to allow a wide playground for variation with the paintings - at the same time we wanted it to be as unique as possible. The idea is to create lots of different people - normal cliché figures and completely weird characters!
The next step was to go 3D and, you know, it took some time to find the right 3D artist for the interpretation. It turned out that Douglas Lassance, who we previously met via Paul Smith, was perfect for this job. We learned the basics in Modo (a 3D app.) so we could communicate our revisions with him.
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Peecol, various notes on pre-sculpting 3D models, 2006-2007.
Paul: Yeah, Douglas was awesome. You know, besides the recent toys we did with Joe Ledbetter, this was the first time Kidrobot really used 3D modeling and 3D printing to design a toy.
How do you see Peecol evolving going forward?
Frankly, I'm dying to do a play-set if we can figure out how to make one affordably, and not have to charge $150 for it!
eBoy: We would love to do play-sets!! Accessories, vehicles, buildings, whatever is possible. Also we love cooperations.
There could be a iPod-shaped-Peecol, a Coke can, Super-Mario-Peecol, etc. The great thing about this is that it really is open-ended.
Also it would be wonderful to make a limited edition super-luxury Peecol version out of porcelain or even decorated with gold or diamonds. The point is that just anything, luxury, super-cheap, clean, dirty, beautiful, ugly, etc., will add play value to the Peecol play-box.
And at some point I think it would be great to open the platform to other artists - but at the moment we want to be careful with this, as we still are defining the genes of the toy.
Paul: Which other artists would you work with on Peecol, if we someday open up to artist editions? Is there anyone you have in mind?
eBoy:
Andreas Barsleth
Siggi Eggertsson
Shary Boyle
Elvis Studio
Daniel Eatock
Jim Woodring
Paul: What stuff are you guys working on right now?
eBoy: We are working on eBoy wrapping paper, a Tokio poster and we teach 2 days a week at the university here in Berlin. And of course there's always Peecol!!!
Paul: Thank you for doing this interview with me, it was fun!
eBoy: Thank you!!! :)
eBoy via iChat, 2007
Steffen Sauerteig (born in 1967) began his working life as an electrician and went on to build sets for East German television. He studied Visual Communication at the College of Fine Art in Berlin from
1991-96.
Kai Vermehr (born in 1964 in Caracas, Venezuela) grew up in Frankfurt am Main in Germany and in Guatemala. He studied Communication Design at the Folkswangschule in Essen, and released two LPs as Kabbahri. Kai has lived in Berlin since 1992.
Svend Smital was born in 1967. He trained as a bricklayer from 1984 to 1987 and then studied at the Berlin Academy of Art from 1991 to 1996. Since graduating he has worked as a freelance designer.
You can see more of eBoy's work at eBoy.com.
Peecol & other eBoy products available at Kidrobot. |
